Oh man, I am sooo not ready for all of that!

I think "group" outings are fine, but dating in the 7th. grade is not.

If "kissy-kissy" is appropriate for 7th. grade, then is "gropey-gropey" okay for 9th. grade?

Or, am I just being old fashioned?

Of course I have an opinion on this. My 14 year old 8th grader is just a year ahead of busygirl, and parallel in many ways.

In 7th grade I only let her go places in groups, like to the mall or movies or football games. Conveniently, she wasn;t "dating" anyone, and neither were most of her friends, so they just carpooled in a great big gang of boys and girls. It was all good, too, although I ended up being one of the moms who always drove, but I guess that keeps me in the loop.

This scares me to death.

To be honest, I'm against dating at 16, but I think my kids and their mother will overrule me on that one.

Right now, we're debating when to allow makeup, pierced ears, PG-13 movies.

I am the mother of two grown daughters and the grandmother of one 14-year-old boy. I grew up in a very strict household and I feel that I was a little more lenient with my daughters because of that, but 7th grade dating for my daughters - no way! Now, with the grandson, I have found that girls of this age are much more aggressive now but I put a lot of that back to the mothers. Last year a little girl - who did not even attend his school but went to school in another town about 20 minutes away - had a crush on him and her mother would bring her to every ball game just so the child could see him! I think some of the mothers are so afraid their child won't be one of the "popular" crowd that they - not necessarily the child - go to extremes to make sure they're not left out. Mothers living their fantasies through their children! No advice here other than just keep doing what you're doing. Keep tabs on what's going on with her but don't be so tight-laced that she won't open up to you. Difficult, I know.

O M G I am so not ready for this. I am still trying to deal with my 11 yr old son getting love notes from girls in his class. I was not allowed to date till I was 16. Nothing nada. Steven has told me stories about a couple of boys going to the movies with their girlfriends. HELLO these kids are 11. They should still be playing in the backyard, climbing trees, shooting hoops, something other than going out with girls. Ok I need more caffene now.

Ok- part of this can be avoided if there are certain rules set down for when Busy Girl goes places while living at home (not just reserved for middle school). We emphasize that as adults husband and I share this same kind of info with each other as a courtesy because we live in the same house, and in case of emergency we can get hold of each other. We expect it of daughter, too, not just because she is a kid.
1) Where are you going? (This includes things like multidestination events e.g. we are going to hang out at Susie's and then going to the movies to see "Unicorns and Elves".) Kid knows that if there is a change of plan/location, she should call and let us know.
2) Who are you going with- must name all involved to the best of her knowledge. (subset of questions if someone else is driving like, are the parents staying for the movie?) If it turns out extra people come along, we don't get mad or anything- we just try to keep the channels open.
3) When are you coming home (and who is driving/picking you up).

We have told our almost 14 year old that going out in the middle school sense is ok- meaning sitting together at lunch, phone calls, and the occasional meeting at the bagel shop during the day . (Not that this is likely to happen due to kid's instensity and funny, sarcastic wit.)

No car dates, or one on one dates until high school.

I'm reading through the comments attentively, since it won't be all that long before I have to deal with this.

I have no advice but I'm going to read all of this info!! I didn't go on a date until I was 15. I think 7th grade is way too young for "dates." Group outings with other classmates is fine. And that mom? Kissy kissy? What the hell?!?!

My parents divorced when I was 7 and my mother was pretty strict with me. I just remember I hung out with a lot of the "good kids" in high school (I was pretty much a newspaper staff/English honors nerd myself) and even the good kids will try to get away with stuff. Eeeeeeek.

Good luck with finding that balance between being the uptight mom and the cool mom. I know there is one!

Here's my seven cents. Girlchild will be 17 next week, Oldest is 18 and a senior. They both did the mixed group thing, by choice, up until about the last year or so. Dating in 7th grade, NOPE. They aren't emotionally ready. I was able to convince my kids early on that learning to deal with the opposite sex as part of a group of friends is a whole lot easier (and safer) than having to learn one-on-one on a date. I was blessed that they found a core group of friends of both sexes that they've been able to be with through middle and high school...they watch out for each other. Kissie-kissie in 7th grade? What is that parent thinking? I wouldn't even joke about such a thing...sheesh! Oh, and by the way, Girlchild is Miss Self-Confidence, which is also a bit threatening to less-confident young men. Hmmm, wonder where she got that self-confidence thing from:-) And yes, the rule is STILL that Mom and Dad need to know where you are and who you are with, and that will be the rule until they leave for college (which will be in four months for Oldest...sob).

Our almost 14-y-o has been allowed on group dates (4 or more people) for the past year. In the beginning, we would call all the other teens' parents and make sure everyone was on the same page about expected behaviors. Now, we are less likely to call the parents, because (1) we already know all the girls' parents and (2) these boy-girl relationships rarely last more than 3 weeks. Our daughter also knows that if it's in a situation that could invite trouble (ex. dark theater), there has to be an adult in the room. We don't plan on changing the rules until she is 15.

So they haven't brought up the coed sleep-overs yet? Somehow I thought I'd get some kind of insulation on that kind of thing with the Catholic high school and all - but no.

I'll email you later with what we have experienced & are experiencing from the boy perspective.

Please tell us what you decide because I'm about to need some guidance here.

It hasn't hit our school yet, but other elementary schools are getting more social between the sexes and I gotta be ready!

I have no idea what the right answer is. I did a lot of hanging out with boys in middle school but I don't think I want my daughter to experience the things I experienced. My best friend was date raped at a boy-girl party while we were in eight grade, The offending raper was in ninth. This still scares the shit out of me for my kids. Of course it was a party in which no parents were present and we were well into the booze. Eigth grade...yikes.

My 14-yr old is in 9th grade. I think part of the problem you're having is that you're using words you are familiar with, like dating or 'going out with' to mean what they used to when WE were kids. They're not the same thing anymore. Going out with someone these days is basically declaring that so and so is your exclusive crush. Crush. Not boyfriend or girlfriend. For example, my son (14) has been "going out" with a girl for over a year now. They occasionally go to the movies in a group. They hang out and play guitar. They hang out with other friends. They have NEVER gone anywhere alone, they don't touch each other, and as far as I know, it just means that they're exclusive friends. Ditto for my daughter, who is 'going out' with D, whom I've never laid eyes on. I've spoken to him on the phone and IMed him, but I don't even know him. No dating at all. Nothing but hanging out, IMing, Facebooking, etc.

OK, with that in mind, I do let my kids go out in groups to the movies on their own, and have for some time. Now, at 14, they take public transportation to the movies (it lets off right in front of the theatre). They pay for the movies themselves, they buy their own treats, they go, and then they come home. No biggie. Because they go in groups, they're more likely to sit boy boy boy girl girl girl than boy girl boy girl boy girl. And it isn't always couples anyhow. It can often be one boy and a handful of girls. You never know, but it's always a group and it always takes hundreds of phone calls to coordinate.

With the advent of cellphones, my kids are never very far out of my reach. The rules are as follows:

You MUST answer the phone if it is me.
If you are late, you MUST call.
You MAY NOT go anywhere without telling me where you are going.
If you go somewhere after school without telling me, automatic grounding for a week.
You MUST tell me about your plans.
We DO NOT attend parties...period.
If there is no parent in the home, we do not go...period.
You MAY NOT be out after dark with no way to get home.
You MUST arrange for transportation in both directions with my approval.
You are NEVER to get into any car with another teen...EVER.

With those rules nailed down, I let my kids have freedom to roam. They're in high school. They have friends that drive, for goodness sake.

I don't think that you can maintain such tight control as your kids get older. You have to trust them, even if you don't REALLY trust them. You have to let them screw up. That's how they learn. And believe me, my kids have screwed up plenty, but they do learn from their errant ways and then they can use self-restraint the next time. After all, aren't we raising our kids to be independant? I know I am.

This is hard parenting territory. I got help from outside sources when I reached the place where I didn't really know what to do. We have a family therapist where we ironed out the rules and regulations. It was a lot more helpful to have a 3rd party saying "mom isn't insane, she's looking out for your welfare" when the kids were calling me a bitch. And once their ire was calmed, they realize that the rules really aren't that restrictive but are there for their welfare. So you might want to consider going that route of using an outside source to help you figure out what your family's rules are to be.

But the bottom line is, you gotta let go. I know it's hard. I know it's scary. But you HAVE to do it. It's your responsibility as a good parent to allow your kids to grow up as independent beings. They have to learn to negotiate life on their own. They need to be given situations where they have to think about consequences. If you always do it for them, they can't really become adults.

Hugs.

When my son was 11, he told me that wanted to "go out with Maria." I asked if he knew what the purpose of dating was. He didn't. I said, "The purpose of dating is to get to know a young woman to see if she's the one you are going to marry and live with until you die. Are you ready to support a wife? Are you ready to be tied down with one woman for the rest of your life?" He stared at me wide-eyed and said, "No. NOOOOOO!" I told him (and my daughter) "Don't start looking until you are ready to commit. Anything before then is wasted emotion and time."

My daughter took these words to heart and married her second boyfriend quite happily. Unfortunately, my son has difficulty heeding wisdom, left home at 17 to marry his pregnant girlfriend and now, after child #3 they are divorcing.

NOW he has expressed his belief that we were right...

My #1 son is in the 7th grade and we have been very fortunate in that he appears to still be in "communication mode" with us, especially with me.

The issue of "dating" has not really surfaced, except that a girl he met at band camp last summer (I know - that infamous band camp!) has phoned him several times. She lives quite a long way away and they have not physically seen each other since camp, so I don't discourage it. In a way, it's sort of cute; they talk for an hour or so and then hang up when they are told to. And, no, there is definitely no kissy-kissy!

I think that you should bribe BusyGirl with cute clothes from Plato's Closet ;)

You can say things like "Are you sure you want to go to the movies? I was about to take you to buy some new jeans." Once boys are more important than clothes you know the trouble has really started.

Note: Jeans at Plato's cost about the same as going to the movies.

I hesitate to give an opinion because no parent likes to be told how another thinks it should be done but you're the one with the blog and comments turned on so . . .

Personal opinion? Strong personal opinion? No child (and child here is the word) should date before sixteen. Period. The idea of a parent having to drive their child on a date is pretty silly--let them wait until they're old enough to drive themselves, then worry about who they're riding with :)

As for seventh grade interactions, you're the parent, you're the one who says what goes (and we've already established they can't drive themselves, which puts you in a pretty darn pretty position with all the power here). If you don't want them dating, let them know it and why.

Gosh, maybe I should get my own blog and post about this. :)

Jackson is a genius

With my girls, I have always had the rule, no car dates until 16. When they want to go to a party (any party including all girl birthday parties), I call the parent(s) involved to make sure an adult will be there. Going out in groups is fine as long as I drive or speak to the adult who will be driving. Before age 16, dates will consist of me or other parents that I've spoken to going along and staying nearby (i.e. movies, amusement parks, dinner at each others houses, etc.) or being dropped off and picked up from short (1 hour) get-togethers at a fast food place, coffee shop or video arcade. The adults present at the party rule extends all the way up to high school graduation and is reviewed on a case-by-case basis after high school. And for the car dates, the boy has to come in and meet my husband and myself first. We need to know where they will be, and there is a midnight curfew.

So far (knock on wood...), this has kept my girls out of most trouble that other kids seem to get into.

First: Busy girl will ALWAYS be telling you you are the strictest, meanest, most____ in the world. At times you will believe it because there really are a lot of flakey parents out there. But, I have always told my kids that they react to things the way they do because that is who they are, and I've had to find a way to work with it.
Now the time has come for them to understand that I react the way I do because that's the way I am, it's the way I came, and it's the only way I know how to do it. I feel like I am doing the right, best thing for them, and I will help them make a count-down calendar so they can count down the days until they are 18, can move out, and eat, wear, watch whatever they want.
Group outings? fine
Dates? Completely unnecessary. They are rushing to grow up, and that dopey mother will next be asking if they did "feely-feely". Really-who asks that? Who wants to think their 7th grader is making out at the movies?

Your instincts are great. My mantra is if I'm on the fence about something, that I don't have to prove it's bad, they have to prove there is some benefit that greatly outweighs my concerns.

Since I don't actually have advise based on experience all I can say is--

7th Grade? Not a group date?

OH, I DON'T THINK SO!

I have a comment for you, but from the perspective of the "other" side. I pretty much pulled the wool over my parents eyes with the whole dating thing at an early age. 7th grade to be truthful. I wouldn't get too strict, like you said, however, I wish my parents had known a little more than they did. It was have prevented a lot of bad situations further down the road.

*I'm totally not blaming them by the way. Just saying it could have helped.*

Hell, I have a 16 year old and won't let her go out with boys unless she's going out with her brothers, father, uncle, etc. She has male friends but she hasn't gone on any dates with them. I guess I'll let her go as long as I meet them (with my brother there because I want them to fear my crazy family).

As for my 13 year old 8th grader? She hasn't dated and won't for a while. She's just too immature right now. She also have male friends but she's not allowed to go anywhere with them other than across the street to the basketball court.

Dating at 12 to 15 is completely not. okay. Group, sure, probably wouldn't start any younger than 12 though. Somewhere around 15 or 16, then the dating can start. This is of course was I believe and what's right for my family, (weather my kids like it or not). You have to decide what you can live with and works for your family. Just my 2 cents worth. [stepping off the soap box now}

I'm just the Aunt in the Grandmother role at Chez Coma, but I have to say that this sort of stuff scares the hell out of me.

My girls are only 5 and a half month old so I have nothing to offer here yet...thank god

Margalit nailed it as far as I am concerned.

I'm not a parent, but I'm twenty-two, so those years aren't too terribly far behind me. Your daughter sounds a lot like I was at that age, though, so here's my kind of unsolicited opinion:

I could "go out" with people in middle school, but I was never allowed to be at the mall or anywhere else unsupervised. It was mostly just hanging out at each other's houses. I went to one movie with a date by myself when I was thirteen, and I was so freaked out (I didn't like him much, my friends pressured me into seeing him in the first place, etc) that I didn't "date" again until high school.

So my issue wasn't so much me being in revolt as it was wanting to keep up with my friends. Middle school is kind of cruddy like that. I'd be more worried about that than smooching in movie theatres, hah.

Once I hit high school, I wasn't allowed to be in a car alone with a guy until I had a license myself, and that worked pretty well. I was really hateful about it as a freshman, though...

Margalit is correct. We started preparing our girls for the dating, driving, hanging out rules when they were early pre-teens. We didn't vary from them, and let other parents know what our rules were. Our kids were allowed to blame everything on us. (MY MOM IS OVERPROTECTIVE AND MY DAD IS STRICT) By the time they get to high school, they are pretty well-trained because that's when you can't control them as well. You still have rules, and curfews--but they drive, and can go with other people. It's SCARY!

And for this reason, I'm thankful for my boys. Let me know when that topic starts...I'll be all ears! LOL

I have promised myself that I would remember what it was like to be a certain age. And what I remember from 7th grade was that I was definitely interested in the opposite sex but had no idea what to do about it. I definitely was not ready to date.

That being said, I think the bottom line is that you have to allow what you are comfortable with and continue to have a dialogue with your daughter about why. It might be rough going for a while but I'm certain your daughter will thank you for it later.

Parenting isn't a popularity contest.

I just recently allowed the Angel to go to the movies with The Boy.... I hate this stuff and want to avoid it, but it doesn't seem possible with her...

So...

The rule is.... that her younger sister, Imelda goes with them...

Why?

Imelda is a narc. she will tell every element of every conversation and add unspoken subtext.

Keep it inmind... sibling as spy...

Ok since I have a 7th grader (but he is a boy ) I will tell you this. I am holding on to the reins and even considering home school. Kids now days just skip the whole holding hand or kissy - kisssy thing . That is very very scary. We live in a very small town but I have found pictures of my sons female class mates on the net in bikinies and this was in 6th. My son has been invited to a b-day party last year were on the inventation he was instructed to wear old clothes and bring 2 cans of shaving cream, because they were gonna get dirty. Ya well I dont wanna be a grandma!! Yesterday a boy brought a gun to school to shoot his teacher. Someone told on him just before he got to his class that the teacher was in.He could have just opened fire! this is a midle school of 300 maybe.

Ok since I have a 7th grader (but he is a boy ) I will tell you this. I am holding on to the reins and even considering home school. Kids now days just skip the whole holding hand or kissy - kisssy thing . That is very very scary. We live in a very small town but I have found pictures of my sons female class mates on the net in bikinies and this was in 6th. My son has been invited to a b-day party last year were on the inventation he was instructed to wear old clothes and bring 2 cans of shaving cream, because they were gonna get dirty. Ya well I dont wanna be a grandma!! Yesterday a boy brought a gun to school to shoot his teacher. Someone told on him just before he got to his class that the teacher was in.He could have just opened fire! this is a midle school of 300 maybe.

Trust your instincts. 7th grade is TOO young to "DATE". Group outings are acceptable. Make the ground rules of these outings abundantly clear. I'm not sure supervision is needed for group outings at a movie, but that's just me. Like I said you should trust your instincts.

Like many others have said - set the boundaries that you will allow and don't vary from them. As hard as it may be, also, hold the same rules and regulations for the boys when you are faced with these same issues. No matter what you do, at some point your children will not like you for some reason, but always know that you're doing the best you know how right now and they'll get over it.

Okay, the mom who asked her daughter about kissy kissy was what scared me the most about your post! We are talking about 12-year olds, right???

I subscribe to a 'conspiracy theory' model. When our kids reached the pre-teen, seriously awkward stage we made a point to befriend a number of like-minded parents in the same boat and began planning regular events (at least once a month) for the group to meet at someone's home to 'hang out'. Food (aka snacks) were prepared by various parents... some semblance of an organized activity was publicised for each event. Usually, the parents dropped off the kiddos and went somewhere to play cards for a couple of hours...then Ward and June would return to pick up the happy, socially engaged offspring. We did this all. the. way. thru. High School. *gasp* End of story:...the kids are now grown and that group of friends are still close.

P.S. No Huggy Bear or Smoochy Mouth at age 11. No. Way.

Oh, I am an expert in raising teenagers because I don' t have any yet! They should all be locked up until they're 21. That way the only kissy kissy I have to worry about is their lips on my cheek.

I think it's funny to hear everybody say that teens should basically be locked up until they are 16. I hung out with 3/4 other guys and 8-10 girls in one large group regularly from 6th to tenth grade. After 8th grade, I asked one of those girls to be my girlfriend. We have been going out since then, and we are now wrapping up our sophomore years at different universities. It was rough not being able to drive the first two years of our relationship, but we didn't get into any trouble dating that early. We survived our teens without anything too stupid, and now we are happily looking forward to futures together. I say let the kids go, they aren't going to do anything too bad.

When I was in 7th grade, "going out" was holding a guy's hand at lunch. I would have never thought to ask my mom if I could go anywhere with him, because the rule in my house was group dates at 15, one-on-one dates at 16. From the sound of it, Busy Girl is pretty level-headed, so talk to her about what she thinks it means to go out with a boy. Then you can gague how worried you should be. ;0) Be an active parent and take mixed groups to the movies and other activities, which should satisfy her appetite for interacting with the boys.

I'm with you, BusyMom.
No to 7th grade dating.
No to 7th gr. "kissy-kissy"

I only speak from my own (very long ago) too-active experience. Stay involved, group functions are ok... and holding hands is sweet.

The hardest lesson I learned was that you cannot rely on other parents to share what you expect to be commonly held values. I had to adopt a "in this house, with this family, these are the rules" mentality and say it over and over and over again.

If you want your kid chaperoned at that age, and I think that it is an appropriate thing to do, you have to do it which means mostly that you have to haul your kid and everybody else's around because you become the parent in charge.

Stick to your guns.

Okay. So all you moms think that dating in seventh grade is to young right? Well I don't really think you understand the concept of "dating." I'm in eighth grade and have been going out with my boyfriend for seven months. It's one of the longest relationships at school. Most last tops three weeks. And most of the time the people avoid their "bf/gf." The don't even sit with them at lunch. Also, the majority of you think that group dating is "safer." In my opinion you are wrong. I'm not sure if you know this but middle school is all about the PEER PRESSURE. It happens on group dates too. People are more likely to try things to impress there friends than they would when they are alone. But also, not every teenager is like teens on tv. When my and my boyfriend hang out it seems like I'm hanging out with one of my "girl friends." We laugh, talk, make fun of each other, ect. And the few couples that have "gone farther" are usually the groups that get F's in all classes and do drugs. Plus, these couples are usually looked down upon...not worshiped. I think that you should give you kid a chance. They should be able to experiement a little bit. Also, you may think your rules are "set in stone," but kids are rebillious. If you tell them they can't go out and they really want to...they will. By saying no you are setting up a wall between you and your child. Your kid will tell you more stuff if they know you aren't going to overreact. Think about it.